Dummy and Base Supports

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14 years 7 months ago - 14 years 7 months ago #7637 by sidjain
Dummy and Base Supports was created by sidjain
Hello,
In the Piping system we use dummy and base supports at a lot of places.
Till now I have seen/used both Pipes and Steel members as these supports.
I want to know that what is a general practice to use a pipe or Steel.
As profile cutting is easier on pipe dummies, still why we go for steel shapes.

Thank You
Siddharth Jain

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14 years 7 months ago - 14 years 7 months ago #5294 by Jop
Replied by Jop on topic Re: Dummy and Base Supports
The vast majority of the incidents where a Dummy Support or a Base Support is required pipe-to-pipe extension method is the preferred.

In my many years in the design office, the pipe fabrication shop and the field, I found this to be true.

The only place where I used or saw Steel Shapes used was in Hydrogen service where you wanted to avoid the possibility of trace Hydrogen build-up that could result in an explosion.

Do it once and Do it Right

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14 years 7 months ago - 14 years 7 months ago #5298 by hc
Replied by hc on topic Re: Dummy and Base Supports
I'm seeing more and more steel shapes rather than pipe for dummy legs and base supports. Our standards here are all steel shapes. Ever see a L5"X5" on a 3" elbow for a dummyleg. It just looks very weird.....but thats our standard for the Exxon Mobil refinery I work in. I miss pipe dummylegs.

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14 years 7 months ago - 14 years 7 months ago #5302 by sidjain
Replied by sidjain on topic Re: Dummy and Base Supports
Thank You JOP and HC

So the real question comes from the answer of HC.
If it looks wierd (having ST3.5 or L5X5 on 2" or 3" Pipes/Elbows).
why our standards are going toward this?
do these provide good strength?
Probably not for small Sizes as we have problems of failure of Dummy Joint(welding point of pipe and steel) during the Dummy Check with Autopipe. Which prevents the use of long dummies.(Our stress group resticted us for dummy length of 1.5' till pipe sizes 4").

Thank You
Siddharth Jain

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14 years 7 months ago - 14 years 7 months ago #5303 by Jop
Replied by Jop on topic Re: Dummy and Base Supports
Sidjain,
You wrote:
"(Our stress group restricted us for dummy length of 1.5' till pipe sizes 4")."

I think we should all question the logic behind some of the "Restrictions" that are placed on us by "Stress Engineers"

Example:
I am currently looking at a "Piping Span Chart" for Seamless Carbon Steel A53 Gr. B pipe.
It recommends no more than 23'-0" span with a deflection of 1" for 2" Sch 80 pipe..

Lets consider three lines.
We have pipe supports spaced at 20' 0'' apart.
Line #1 - 2" sch 80 straight pipe that spans from pipe support to pipe support with no change in direction or branches. No problem.

Line #2 - 2" sch 80 straight pipe line that spans from pipe support to pipe support with two branches near the mid point . No problem.

Line #3 - 2" Sch 80 pipe line must leave the pipe rack 5'-0" short of the next pipe support we are restricted from using a dummy support longer than 1'-6". Why can't I use a 2" dummy to complete the span?

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14 years 7 months ago - 14 years 7 months ago #5306 by sidjain
Replied by sidjain on topic Re: Dummy and Base Supports
Thanks JOP for your inputs.
Yes it is right that we do not have any problem in Case1 and Case2.
Now for Case3
A) Do you want to Increase the HDR pipe till next Pipe support (i.e. 5' Away) and want to weld a cap with it?
But in this case it will become a dead leg for liquid and liquid will get accumulate there which is not acceptable.
B) If you want to use dummy support (i.e. Pipe dummies) our project standard refuses for it.

Now I want to make clear that with steel shapes everything works good except the welding between pipe and steel.
This welding gets fail for longer dummies, because of the higher moments generated.

One more thing our support standard allows us to use dummies of Length 4'0" till 4" Pipe size; But not the stress guys.

Thank You
Siddharth Jain

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